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Sicko - the movie
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Sheriff
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 posted 7/19/2007 6:55:55 PM
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Anybody watched it? What do you think?
There's a "Money Talk Radio" 860 AM in Philadelphia:
http://www.wwdbam.com/
Good guys, know some stuff about investments, etc. Today they had a discussion about the movie, and they invited an Insurance Salesman(!!! some Long Term Care salesman by the name Doug) to discuss the movie. Slick Doug obviously turned the movie on its head, upside down, twisted the points, and even managed to turn a point of the movie into a benefit of current system!  Way to go, this gave the radio -100 points in my eyes, enough for me to try and call them and challenge the dude. Obviously, he wasn't picking up the phone on the radio, I've got answering machine.
There were a couple of movie points that Insurance Salesman missed.
1. That we have to ridiculously raise taxes to have Universal Health Care.
NOT TRUE. We have pretty much a uniform health care coverage right now! The only difference is that Insurance companies skim 50% of the premiums as their profits. All we need to do is eliminate 80% of insurance companies! That's all, keep some so that whoever wants it can have extra paid medical Insurance. We will even get more money than we need out of this idea. Obviously, governmenet will find ways to waste it, so what.
Impossible? Quite opposite. I haven't given it much thought, but here's a quick and dirty example - just offer 50% discount on employee health coverage to companies if they switch to Universal Health plan, and make it a law for Companies to cover everyone. 50% savings? There will be a flood of applications, and in the first 3-6 months a large % of current health isurers will disappear themselves!
2. That people will have to wait months to get stuff approved by the government, and that some procedures will be denied.
NOT TRUE. This is what Insurance Salesman managed to get on its head. It is NOW that Insurance companies deny procedures, make people wait months, pay out of pocket, etc. With Universal Health Care you don't even have to get approvals...well, maybe in some cases from your Primary Care Physician - just go and make a procedure.
3. That there will have to be another Insurance overseen by the Government, and this is will be socialist, yada...yada...
NOT TRUE. As I mentioned, all we need to do is ELIMINATE 80% OF ALL INSURANCE COMPANIES. They are the parasites that must go! 
4. That good Pharmaceutical companies are developing great new drugs, free market, yada-yada, some salesly lingo...and this is great, and if the Government will step in it will be bad for progress.
NOT TRUE. Right now, there is no free market. Pharmaceutical companies are mostly searching for drugs that will NOT cure, but put people on continuing dosages. Or they keep prices ridiculously high. They are not interested in curing you, believe me, they are interested in your money. And the more dangerous the illness, the more money they will charge you for procedures. This MUST STOP. Here the Government must finally step in, and implement a set of rules - such as make some drugs available under Universal Health Care for a fixed amount of money. At least we will somewhat stop ridiculous things like $120 inhalators that cost 50 cents on Cuba.
[Message edited by Sheriff on 7/20/2007 10:22:30 AM]
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Sheriff
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3923 posts
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posted 7/20/2007 10:22:39 AM
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This Insurance Salesman then had a nerve to pedal his Long Term Care insurance scam. Basically, telling you that you are going to be screwed when you are old, there will be NO insurance, and you better buy it right now.
SHAME ON THIS GREAT COUNTRY.
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tostring
552 posts
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posted 7/20/2007 10:17:42 PM
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Michael Moore should go blow a donkey or something. I am sure that this movie is the same load of biased anti-republican, fact changing, tree hugging shit just like the rest of his "work"
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brad62
2373 posts
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posted 7/20/2007 11:17:22 PM
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Holy shit. Tostring. My opinion of you has just changed. G/damned right. Micheal Moore can go blow elephant cock.
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brad62
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posted 7/22/2007 2:08:36 AM
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So Tostring, I went to Micheal Moore's youtube channel today. Watched his "glopust". That's Bulgarian for " *ullshit ". I left him a comment. He has no retort back to me.
You have said about the high cost of health care in Canada.
Why would M.M. think the American government could manage health care here in America?
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tostring
552 posts
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posted 7/22/2007 2:30:35 AM
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Brad, I don't think he will answer you. He is picky as to which question does he answer. The thing about health care in Canada: our taxes are too high but the health care is "free". What does this mean - well I will be taxed beyond belief for this kind of services:
A year ago I managed to dislocate my knee. I was in the hospital for about 7 hours until they actually decided to put my twisted knee back to it's original configuration. During my waiting, I was transported to XRay twice where I actually had to get off the bloody bed while my knee cap was facing sideways. Damn that was painful. The whole procedure of placing my knee cup back took about 15 seconds according to my wife, I was knocked out during this. Why this was not done right away, I have no idea. After that I was discharged and send home. Despite the fact that the health care is free I got billed for: an ambulance ride, a pair of crutches and a brace.
About 6 month ago or so, my older kid woke up after his nap and he would not stop crying for about an hour. This is highly unusual as he is a very easy going kid. I took him to the hospital, we waited about 3 hours and went back after he fallen asleep.
I honestly don't need this kind of health care. I would rather pay for it when I need it and receive a proper service then have my government take it out of my pay.
BTW glupost' is russian for stupidity
[Message edited by tostring on 7/22/2007 2:31:21 AM]
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brad62
2373 posts
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posted 7/23/2007 1:49:59 AM
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year ago I managed to dislocate my knee.
Tostring, how was it managed? Was it planned? LOL
Anyways.American health care coverage does need help. It does need the Government to step in and say, Hey. Fix what's broken.But the American Government cannot take on that huge load of universal health care.
The Government does need to tell the Insurance companies to make it more affordable to all.
The real problem with health care does not lie within the Insurance companies. But the scumbag Lawyers.
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Sheriff
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posted 7/23/2007 9:02:58 AM
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tostring - I don't necessarily like the guy either. And, sometimes I disagree with him. But sometimes a) he is right, and b) this country is in a desperate need of alternative opinions, as everything else is so uniform it stinks like a sensorship.
[offtop]
In any country that claims it is a democracy there should be at least 2 things happening:
1) people should be allowed to vote their opinion (not true in US, you only vote for the last 2 candidates, and only in your state)
2) there should be alternative parties other than 2 gimmicks you can't distinguish from one another. There should be a running socialist party, or labor, or even communist. So there's a second opinion.
[/offtop]
Now, I don't care if some burger-eater considers Moore a tree-hugger, it is all propaganda and names. He has an opinion, and in this case - A GOOD ONE.
As I said, none of you got it either, read my comments in the first post. If done right, there will be:
1) no tax cost associated with Universal Health Care
2) you will be able to have an alternative - go to government-paid hospital, or to a private clinic.
tostring, shame on you, I don't know when you left Russia, but this system exists currently in Russia. IMHO healthcare in Russia is not worse than in US, at least from my experience.
In fact, I am watching Eastern Europe very closely, as many countries there have both Universal Health and flat tax. brad, guess what, there's only one country that has a tax above 30%, and it is scheduled to be reduced below that. Most countries are even below 20%, also with reduction plans to 10%-15%. None of that propaganda you've heard on TV is true about taxes and Unversal Healthcare.
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brad62
2373 posts
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posted 7/23/2007 10:26:41 AM
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Sheriff, guess what? I don't have a T.V.. So I wasn't watching anything.
I agree with you on some of these points. But if you think the American government will manage health care without raising taxes. I say to you, Sheriff, get off the crack pipe.
That's all I'm saying. We have so many people here without health insurance. I'm included in that category.
P.S.. MM deleted my comment from his youtube account. And his profile page is set to private. Nobody can make contact with him. I didn't watch the movie. So I don't know what it's about. But if it's like his other movies? Then it a load of crap. All he does is bitch about the Government " the Republican Government " But he never offers a solution. He can criticize. But I guess he doesn't like to hear other opinions
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Sheriff
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posted 7/23/2007 12:34:03 PM
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brad: But if you think the American government will manage health care without raising taxes
I don't think so, and herein lies a problem. US of A, with the help of its current government, is about to become a 2nd world country (not a third world yet, but we are working on that as well).
brad: But he never offers a solution
Well, whoever is in charge doesn't like to hear about a solution. You don't have health insurance, and neither do I. Go and watch the movie, if you don't learn anything from it, well, just think that I influenced you to loose 2 hours of your time.
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tostring
552 posts
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posted 7/23/2007 2:35:35 PM
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Look, your healthcare is fine, trust me. I understand that you can purchase insurance if it is not provided by your employer, right? How much would that cost? Just out of curiosity. Any subsidized health will cost you taxes, and you really don't want to pay more taxes. MM does provide some food for thought, but most of the time he does twists facts beyond recognition. All i got to say Michael Moore fingers owls.
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tostring
552 posts
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posted 7/23/2007 2:41:46 PM
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Sheriff, I left Ukraine, not Russia, for that matter in 1996, that was a long time ago. I am not sure if the system they got in place there right now works. I know that right now I live in a country where health care is free, but the taxes are out of control. And the bastards always trying to increase those. Last week they wanted to double land transfer tax + extra 60.00 for vehicle registration. Think of a young family buying their first house - your land transfer is not 3500 but 7000, isn't it great? Considering the facts that our douchebags keep on spending my tax $ on driving ranges and private plains, trust me, less taxes are good.
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tostring
552 posts
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posted 7/23/2007 3:42:37 PM
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Michael Moore fingers owls
Damn, I have edited this post about 5 times now.
[Message edited by tostring on 7/23/2007 3:46:08 PM]
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Sheriff
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posted 7/23/2007 4:43:10 PM
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tostring: I live in a country where health care is free, but the taxes are out of control.
As I said again, ...and nobody seems to listen, in this country anyway.... taxes and Universal Healthcare are unrelated issues
If they were, there would be an exact correlation: Universal Healthcare coverate = high taxes. But let's examine a few countries with free healthcare:
Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and most new Eastern European countries (Lithuania, Latvia, etc.). Also, Argentina, Brazil, Canada and Cuba, Australia, Izrael, Japan, New Zealand, Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, and more.
USA is the only country where Healthcare costs as percent of GDP are greater than 11% - 15.2%. Next one is Germany at about 11%, canada is below 10%.
Interesting enough, most western european countries, Canada and Australia have taxes higher than US. Yet, eastern european, south american and asian countries have taxes way below that, and still can afford Universal Healthcare.
Explain that.
[Message edited by Sheriff on 7/23/2007 4:57:39 PM]
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brad62
2373 posts
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posted 7/23/2007 11:12:04 PM
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brad: But if you think the American government will manage health care without raising taxes
I don't think so, and herein lies a problem. US of A, with the help of its current government, is about to become a 2nd world country (not a third world yet, but we are working on that as well).
brad: But he never offers a solution
Well, whoever is in charge doesn't like to hear about a solution. You don't have health insurance, and neither do I. Go and watch the movie, if you don't learn anything from it, well, just think that I influenced you to loose 2 hours of your time.
Sheriff, Who is " WE "? Who is trying to make America a 3rd World Country. I don't understand what you are driving at. I would love to get health care insurance. I would enjoice that concept. Even though it socialistic in concept. But the problem is. If the Government would, could, do that. Then taxes would be raised. Or if they did not raise taxes. Then they would take money from other places that need it just as well. If not more!
It's a good subject to talk about. Importatant actually. I wish you had a solution to the dilemma..
I wish I could fix it.
But the Government should not get involved beyond regulation
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Sheriff
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posted 7/24/2007 9:01:03 AM
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I offered a solution - shut down about 80% of existing insurance companies. Read my first couple of posts. There will be plenty of money.
Right now I don't have health insurance. Sure, I make plenty of money to pay for it. It just does not make sense.
Consider this:
Personal health insurance is upwards of $200/month. $200/month policy has a high deduction (typically > $1000). $250/month policy has $500 deduction. For our russian friends who don't know what deduction is - it is the money you pay upfront before your insurance starts paying for you. A typical policy will cost me about $3500/year (payments + deductible). Also, insurance doesn't cover everythig, moreover it actually covers very limited number of things. I am thankfully not a sick man, so typically I don't spend more than $1000/year on medical expenses. So I'd have to waste $2500/year in insurance money for a faint possibility of an emergency situation when I'd need lots of it. 10 years down the road I am out of $25,000 (or even more, I rarely spend $1000/year).
So guess what - I don't have health insurance because it screws me over. And so do many other americans. Yet we have 75% of people covered by health insurance, and insurance companies make huge money. So trust me, money is there, and enough for everyone without a single extra tax dollar.
[Message edited by Sheriff on 7/24/2007 9:03:34 AM]
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brad62
2373 posts
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posted 7/24/2007 9:51:23 AM
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Sheriff, I've read the whole thing. It's a novel approach. It's just a little naive. If you've read my posting? I'm telling you it's the lawyers doing this. And the lobbyist. That's why I'm saying, the Government should only control it as far as figuring out how to reduce the cost.
Sheriff, I totally agree with you on this subject. " and I never would have thought we would agree on anything "
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Sheriff
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posted 7/24/2007 10:39:26 AM
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we can also agree to disagree
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tostring
552 posts
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posted 7/24/2007 10:57:31 AM
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Sheriff, you make a strong point, but closing down insurance companies - never going to happen. Perhaps it might work out with out raising taxes, but most likely it will not. That cash has to come from somewhere. There is a budget surplus here in Canada and as soon as they are starting to talk about raising taxes the first explanation is "increasing cost of the health care" or "aging population" which is the same thing. And that is with surplus. Plus to be honest, I can't understand why do I have to pay for some fat douche that needs liposuction?
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Sheriff
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posted 7/24/2007 11:48:48 AM
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totstring - "aging population" is a bullshit excuse they use to increase taxes that people do not understand. They also use "baby boomers retiring" excuse here. That's another lame BS-er excuse. People live longer so they work longer. Retirement age used to be 55, now it is what, 65? Going onto 73 or so...basically it is following average life expectancy, people retire when they can't work anymore because of illnesses, then they spend their retirement money on medical help, and die. "Baby boomers" is even a lamer excuse 'cause these baby boomers used to be kids and they were taken care of without tax increases.
Brad, go watch the movie  
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