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Hello Everyone! Russia, Bush, tax cuts
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asifna
603 posts
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 posted 3/28/2004 1:18:49 PM
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I am over  total misundestanding
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Serega13
Moderator
1265 posts
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posted 3/28/2004 3:44:38 PM
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15 years ago very few people knew what Internet was, and that is the only reason why this website couldn't have existed. Dave, no offence, but you have been brainwashed by US media just like majority of people in this country - 15 years ago FBI would have came for you if you said you were a communist, in fact they can still come to this day, they also have complete freedom to tap your phone, check your emails and search your house, all they have to do is deem you a terrorist.
Also please don't even start with American winning WW2, US did close to nothing in WW2, 200000 American troops you talk about - there have been 2 million casualties in just ONE battle over Sevastopol, do you understand that??? US did jack shit, in fact you should be ashamed of your government not caring about millions of people dying, US knew about genocide but instead of sending help earlier - US banks financed fascists, US manufacturers sold them goods and government had no clear anti-fascist policy untill very late in the war. If US never entered the war, it wouldn't have made any difference in a long run, however if Hitler never attacked USSR you would have been speaking German right now. That is the truth, whether you like it or not.
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Sheriff
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3939 posts
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posted 3/28/2004 4:29:04 PM
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Interesting...I've had numerous conversations about it with my american counterparts, and found that it is difficult for them to accept other opinions. Actually, let me say it even stronger (and I am not attacking Dave here) - in a typical political debate, general american population is acting like an elephant or an a55 /they call it donkey here  /
Anyway, with about 5% or so americans ever been abroad, it is no wonder that any opinion that contradicts their blind believes is taken as personal offence - a typical "patriot" is blinded by mass media and oftentimes confuses newspaper tabloids for reality.
And funny as it is, with all their buffooning "patriotism" and "we are better than anyone" attitude, America will have to learn Spanish within next 30 years - just an ironic geopolitical law in action.
One of the reasons this site is here, because I got tired of arguments like this on "American terms" - meaning on american sites run by american "patriots". Because the only way they can win an argument over you is by moderating you out of discussion.  
Come on, Dave, and everybody else, let's have a real open conversations here. I promise I will not deside debate winners by deleting posts. 
Sheriff
[Message edited by Sheriff on 3/28/2004 4:30:32 PM]
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SuperDave
24 posts
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posted 3/28/2004 11:58:52 PM
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Serega13 said, "if Hitler never attacked USSR you would have been speaking German right now. That is the truth, whether you like it or not."
I agree with that also. Are you surprized?
But I have not been brainwashed by anybody. I'm not bragging on US accomplishments. We are the greatest country. Never has a country had so much power an abused it so little. If Fidel Castro had the US military might at his commmand, he would conquer the world inside of 10 years. The US is invulnerable to military defeat. We give monitary aid to other countries of more than twice the combined aid of ALL other countries. Almost everything you will use today was invented by an American. OK so maybe I AM bragging a little! The US offers more freedom to it's people than any other country.
If there was an anti-Soviet newspaper in Russia prior to 1988, the writers would have been censored or imprisoned. Do you deny this? Communism is perfectly legal in the US. They would not even draw any significant FBI curiosity. There is the CPUSA (communist party USA). They put a candidate on the US ballot every election and get about .001% of the vote. ALL opinions are heard in the US even if not agreed with.
Look, I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Afterall. I have not been subjected to lifelong propoganda. What I would still like to know is what no one will tell me. Here's a bunch of questions for you. How many Rubles to a US dollar? What is the cost of living in Russia? Are all parts of Russia about the same? What kind of cars do Russians drive? Is the pollution bad? What kind of money does an average Russian make? What's the weather like? Hollywood make Russia always cloudy and snowy bu I know that is a generalization. It must be warm somewhere in Russia. What is the origin of the term "Soviet"? What kind of government does Russia have? Is it a republic like the USA now or a democracy? What do Russians do for entertainment? How common are other languages (especially English) in Russia? Are there many black people in Russia? I'm white, but my wife and many of my friends are black. These are the things I was hoping to talk about.
But since eveyone here seems to be politically minded. Who here can vote? and who will you vote for? I am going to vote for George W. Bush again. I'd like to see more tax cuts, more moral standards, drilling for oil on our own land instead of buying our oil from islamic dictatorships. The whole world was laughing at us when Bill Clinton was our president. I was embarrassed by Clinton. I'm pretty sure Bush will beat Kerry in November, and the republicans will gain even more of a majority in the house of representatives and the senate. Let's hope so!
Super Dave
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Serega13
Moderator
1265 posts
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posted 3/29/2004 9:34:53 AM
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I can vote but definately not for Bush 
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yuliya
181 posts
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posted 3/29/2004 11:04:16 AM
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well, Super Dave was lookin for some1 to teach him russian and tell him something sbout russian culture but here u guys started to argue about politics stuff 
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Àêàêèé
2333 posts
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posted 3/29/2004 12:16:04 PM
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Maybe this will help understand the Russian culture better:
"The whole world was laughing at us when Bill Clinton was our president. I was embarrassed by Clinton."
HA-HA-HA!! 
I don't know about the rest of the world, but many Russians were definetely simpathetic to him.
It's not the Clinton. It's the Americans who must be very embarrased how they treated their president just for having sex!
He was not just a president, he was also a man. It was his own business, but the media and the rest of the idiots had nothing better then discussing the whitehouseBJ, and finally it turned out to be another money making schema for the media!
Of course the whole world was laughing at the USA - how sick the reaction was to somebody's private life.
Bytheway, it looks like the world including USA had never laughed so much as they laugh now at Bush. In my opinion it is too much, a president should not give so many reasons for people to make fun of him.
About money. I think the question should be not "What kind of money does an average Russian make?" but you also should ask what they do with the money. Definetely they do not make enough money to be too happy, and also it is impossible to generalize here. For some americans if they make enough money to buy a car, a truck, then a loan mower, get a house and pay for mortgage, they would be pretty happy for a while, until they want a better car, a bigger house, a better job... Many russians would not need all this extras to be happy.
[Message edited by Akakiy on 3/29/2004 12:18:14 PM]
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yuliya
181 posts
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posted 3/29/2004 1:32:05 PM
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stop argue guys
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SuperDave
24 posts
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posted 3/29/2004 2:12:00 PM
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Akakiy, are you from Russia? Why aren't you there now? Probably because it sucks, right? If it was better than where you are now, then you'd still be in Russia, right? I think you have established yourself as a partisan political hack. We know now that you never saw a republican you liked or a democrat (communist) you disliked. You have no moral standards if you thing Bill Clinton did nothing wrong. I'd like to ask you and any other commie leftists on this forum. What's the worst counrty in the middle-east? Now if you follow your communist party talking points from the faxes you get from the DNC every day, you should say Israel. My guess is you all think Israel is the most evil counrty in the middle-east. Why? Because it's the only country that's not an communist islamic dictatorship. The USA is evil, right? Israel is evil, too, right? Come on and say it so we know where you stand. You hate when some country rises above the others in that region due to capitalism. You're so sure the Russian people are saying to themselves, "we don't want to be rich, we like being poor. We don't need freedom like the US." Keep believing that! Have a nice day, even if you are not in a capitalist country
WHEREVER THERE IS CAPITALISM, THERE IS NEVER STARVATION.
WHEREVER THERE IS STARVATION, THERE IS NEVER CAPITALISM.
Bush/Cheney '04
Super Dave
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Sheriff
Admin
3939 posts
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posted 3/29/2004 2:36:43 PM
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Yep, except for Libya, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and should I mention all these african countries with diamond mining and oil wells? Dear Dave, you just don't want to see through tabloids, my friend.
If I could make about 1/3 what I make here, and crime situation be somewhat stabilized, I'd move to Russia in a heartbeat. Life is certainly more interesting there. I would prefer to never ever again have conversations about food for longer than 5 minutes at a time - and that is favourite subject of american conversations.
Think not about quantity (as what have become an "american dream", but of quality. Can I have better friends in Russia than in US? Absolutely, they will also be real friends, not just "going out buddies". Are women a lot more interesting in Russia? Absolutely. Can the same amount of money buy a lot higher quality of life in Russia than in US? Absolutely, maybe except Moscow...
People make choices in their lives. Some of us chose to live here. Whether it will be a permanent, or a temporary encounter, remains to be seen.
SuperDave, get over communism, the witch hunt is over. and please, do not attack people personally, that will be moderated.
Also, can you elaborate on that "freedom" statement please? How exactly do you understand this term?
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Àêàêèé
2333 posts
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posted 3/29/2004 2:56:16 PM
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Dave, I never said that either USA or Russia sucks more than the other. Both of them have their own advantages and disadvantages. If you think that USA is 100% great, just try to drive in some shady neighborhoods in Philadelphia or NYC. It sucks much more than Russia. Of course USA is great in many ways, but just being here does not make one's life better. Does not matter, where USA, Russia... you still have to do something. I personally know a number of people in Russia, who have honest(in russian understanding) businesses, and who live very well, much beter then many americans. Also many of them had an opportunity to move here or to another country, but they did not. Why don't you go to Russia and check it for yourself. Hope you'll enjoy it. You aksed why I'm not in Russia now - I had some personal reasons for that.
"You're so sure the Russian people are saying to themselves, "we don't want to be rich, we like being poor"
- where did you hear that? I tried to explain that there is something else in addition to the amount of $$$ for somebody to be rich.
regards,
Commi bastard
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asifna
603 posts
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posted 3/29/2004 4:38:22 PM
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DAve (Super Dave, sorry )
We all like America, and it is why we staying here. It is a great country.
-but if you live in one country it doesnt mean you don't like any different countries. Russia is like our first love, and America is the second. But you never forget your first love...
But for some reason you choose the second
[Message edited by asifna on 3/29/2004 4:39:18 PM]
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Sheriff
Admin
3939 posts
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posted 3/29/2004 4:44:32 PM
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ÎÃÎ!
Wise like a Tibetian monk
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Sheriff
Admin
3939 posts
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posted 3/29/2004 5:32:34 PM
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...$350 billion tax cut. if you just outright make up jobs, just pure - pay people $50,000 a year for doing nothing for the next 7 years...that would create exactly 1 million "jobs". So where did the money go??? I didn't see a squad of it, and unemployment continues to rise.
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SuperDave
24 posts
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posted 3/29/2004 9:09:18 PM
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Sheriff Said
"...$350 billion tax cut. if you just outright make up jobs, just pure - pay people $50,000 a year for doing nothing for the next 7 years...that would create exactly 1 million "jobs". So where did the money go??? I didn't see a squad of it, and unemployment continues to rise."
The US had a $1.6 trillion tax cut. Which country is unemployment going up? Not in The USA! Our unemployment rate is currently 5.6%. Our unemployment rate has never been lower than 4.2%. Compare that to almost 10% unemployment for all of Europe. Government does not create jobs. Individuals do. Government gets in the way of people investing and starting small businesses.
Super Dave
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SuperDave
24 posts
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posted 3/29/2004 10:45:50 PM
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Asifna, what part of Russia are you from? Do you have family here? Family in Russia? What kind of work do you do?Do you have trouble with the English language? I have a hard time with Russian grammar but I think the pronunciation and spelling is easy. I listen to Russian lessons on CD's in my car while I drive. The many forms of the Russian verbs is hard to learn. Any advice?
Reguardless of our political opinions, I think that everyone would get along with me in person. When I say the US is such a great country, I am not saying that we don't have problems. The USA has many problems that we need to solve. A wise political philosopher once said of the US, "The USA is the worst country, except for all the others."
Super Dave
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Serega13
Moderator
1265 posts
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posted 3/30/2004 2:58:46 AM
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Vote Bush and by the time he's done USA will be 3rd world country just like Aphganistan! Then most of us will move back to Russia and leave SuperDave here with his taxcut.
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SuperDave
24 posts
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posted 3/30/2004 3:47:13 AM
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Can you tell me why Bush is not a good president. Give me some examples of what he's done wrong and what you would do different if you were president. What's wrong with tax cuts?
Super Dave
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Àêàêèé
2333 posts
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posted 3/30/2004 10:05:30 AM
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Dave,
You were talking about atrocities commited under Soviet and Russian leaders.
Where are you now, in USA, Iraq, or Afganistan?
You sound like that either you do not care or you were brainwashed about the countries Bush has wars with.
If you are in the USA, find somebody from your neighborhood who just came back from Iraq. If they are still alive, ask them if they wanna live. Yesterday I was told a story about a local young american guy(a neighboor of my friend) who killed himself after he came back from Iraq where americans first bomb blasted civilians and then killed those who survived after the first blast. Since you've got a patriotic spirit, you probably do not care about thousands of innocent Iraques, Afgans, etc... But maybe you would care at least about americans who come back from Iraq alive and still do not wanna live after what they did there.
If this is the way we should go - help "patriots" with flags on their trucks achieve their american dream by killing innocent people, I think this sort of capitalism sucks. People are more worried about the stock market. After USA started bombing Afganistan and the stock market was falling down, the first word one guy said "oh shit, my stocks!". And I'm sure every patriot is gonna love Bush and be really happy as long as their stocks are up even though Bush killes half of the arab countries, since they are all "terrorist" and do not like us becasue "we are free and they are not". This is what Bush said on TV. How more stupid can this be?
This sounds bad, but hopefully there will be enough americans killed soon so the "patriots" will start noticing it and start doing something about it to save others. BTW, that guy was going to become a writer, but Mr. Bush decided it was more important for him to go and kill Iraques, then himself. How can you feel good about this after all?
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Àêàêèé
2333 posts
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posted 3/30/2004 10:11:43 AM
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Anekdot:
The worst terract by AlQaeda against USA:
Bush
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